Front Wipers once activated won't turn off

[tomtomtom]

Hi, new on forum.

I have a 2009 1.5dci. This fault has just occurred.

When I turn on the front wipers, either with a wash action or just to any other position, they will not turn off or act with the rain sensor.

The only way to stop them running is to pull over and turn off the ignition and wait a couple of minutes, if you don't wait at least that amount of time before starting the car again the wipers will start running again, when the stick is in the off position, no amount of trying different positions of the stick will stop them.

Occasionally they MAY turn off after a couple of minutes on their own after stop position selected, but rarely. This is a major nuisance as just washing the screen of dirt or clearing rain, they will not stop unless the ignition is turned off and couple of minutes is allowed before restarting your journey!

I would be grateful for any suggestions as how to rectify this or a temporary workaround until a garage can be consulted after the lockdown finishes. I have some electrical knowledge and would be able to locate fuse boxes or relays if pointed in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.

[calnorth]

You may have quite a problem because the wiper system is not trivial. Attached is the J10 Nissan document for the wipers and much more, It may not be 100% correct but gives some guidance. See page WW-5 for the system diagram.

There are two main electronic modules involved...Body Control Module (BCM) and Power Distribution (IPDM E/R). Power cannot be removed from those as many other functions will be affected.

Do the wipers continually run when LO or HI or Intermittent speed is selected...at those different speeds? Or is it all at one speed. Am looking for any motor speed control here.

Page WW-90 shows WIPER AND WASHER SYSTEM SYMPTOMS - "Front wiper does not stop". Which does not appear helpful as regards "Probable malfunction location".

FRONT WIPER BASIC OPERATION
• BCM detects the combination switch condition by the combination switch reading function.
• BCM transmits the front wiper request signal to IPDM E/R with CAN communication depending on each
operating condition of the front wiper.
• IPDM E/R turns ON/OFF the integrated front wiper relay and the front wiper high relay according to the front
wiper request signal. IPDM E/R provides the power supply to operate the front wiper HI/LO operation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[tomtomtom]

Hi, many thanks for the manual and explanation. Basically looks very complicated as you say!

I have just checked the malfunctioning.

The wipers run at normal speed without pausing on intermittent setting, then when normal speed selected they carry on without any change to speed. When high speed is selected they run at high speed, then reduce again to normal when selected and stay at normal speed when intermittent selected without any pausing and finally when off is selected they carry on without change at normal speed until ignition is turned off.

The rear wiper works normally and will switch off.

If the ignition key is turned back on again anytime soon the wipers recommence at normal speed even though selector is in the off position. The only way to stop the wipers operating when the ignition is turned back on again, is to wait at least 2 minutes after last ignition switch off.

Do you think there is any quick way to disable the front wipers, for instance pulling the Front Wiper Relay?, wherever that is!

[lewisbryant]

The wiper motor has lost its park position most probably the wiper motor itself is usual cause but there is a wire running to the IPDM indicating the park position but I've never had a park wire go on one of these but you know it's not impossible it requires checking.

Internal to the wiper motor there is a ground supplied to the park wire when it arrives at its park position, thats why when at auto or intermittent it stops at the park position or in your instance does not it just goes straight past it because the ipdm is waiting to see the park position so it can then de energize the relay also when you turn it to the off position it is again waiting for the park position before de energizing the motor. If you leave it run on intermittent or in the off position I think it will 'time out' it's like 3 minutes of no park signal then it will stop for 10 seconds but it will stop in a random position I cant remember the actual interims it's in the manual it is I've seen it and dealt with this issue before . Hope that makes sense

The front wiper relay is integrated into the ipdm its soldered onto board

Hope this helps a bit

[calnorth]

Thoughts..long winded
@lewisbryant outlines the logic in that the wiper motor flags a specific rotational position...or should do. The position is the wipers "normal at rest" position or not stuck en route across w/screen.

Diagram below shows STOP/MOVE switch in wiper motor which informs a signal processor (CPU in IPDM) of the wiper motor STOP position. That supplies a ground signal as the wiper "normal at rest" position during wiper cycling. MOVE is the motor switch and always open circuit. I suspect that the CPU buffer floats high (12v) enabling onward switching. This CPU is one element of various function CAN bus control for most on board devices... a lot.

Non fault operation:
When wipers are driver commanded for LO/HI/INT the STOP/MOVE signal is usually ignored. MOVE is motor positional switch and open circuit.
When wipers are driver commanded OFF the wiper motor eventually (secs) sends motor STOP signal to the CPU. CPU disables wiper motor power relay and motor stops at normal at rest position.
INT is an automatic (delay timer) version of manual driver commands and periodically the CPU will recognise the motor STOP signal...and stop the wiper motor. CPU recommences wiper motor from auto timer after selected delay by driver. Auto timer is within BCM.

As regards the wipers running after IGN OFF. I know from the J11 that car power for some functions remains ON for some few minutes. Examples being the USB socket/running lights and after car locked. Thats apart from security/battery monitoring that continues at low level. Looking at the diagram IGN OFF, delays arise from the Body Control Module (BCM) and it is powered directly from the car battery (2 fuses) and commands the wiper CPU via the CAN bus. That likely explains the IGN OFF wipers unwanted "running on" issue. Eventually stopping after some BCM delay...anywhere on the w/screen.

There is a 30A wiper only system fuse in the IPDM which might be tricky to get at. A mistake here could be very costly. Alternatively its a case of unplugging the cable at the wiper motor...wherever that might be. See diagrams perhaps?

Black thick line from Battery flowing right and down through 2 fuses to BCM - off picture
BCM shown as part block with pin Nos 19 & 20 (Can Bus)

[tomtomtom]

Many thanks, @lewisbryant and @calnorth for your most informative replies!

Basically I think pulling the connector to the wiper motor maybe the 'easiest' choice until I can get it sorted! Even that is not straight forward, there are two pop out grills under the bonnet, near where the motor is located, but of course I can not reach the connector from either! To remove the casing to the enclosure looks like a major hassle, so I am thinking of carefully cutting out a section of plastic nearest the motor connector, so I can pull it when necessary, sometimes the wipers do stop and stay stopped!

I did find an emergency auto rescue centre open yesterday, but they were baffled and said it would have to go to the Nissan Dealer, which is of course closed due to the lockdown. They actually looked online and found this forum and both your posts to help them reach the decision that they could not help!

[calnorth]

Many thanks, @lewisbryant and @calnorth for your most informative replies!

Basically I think pulling the connector to the wiper motor maybe the 'easiest' choice until I can get it sorted! Even that is not straight forward, there are two pop out grills under the bonnet, near where the motor is located, but of course I can not reach the connector from either! To remove the casing to the enclosure looks like a major hassle, so I am thinking of carefully cutting out a section of plastic nearest the motor connector, so I can pull it when necessary, sometimes the wipers do stop and stay stopped!

I did find an emergency auto rescue centre open yesterday, but they were baffled and said it would have to go to the Nissan Dealer, which is of course closed due to the lockdown. They actually looked online and found this forum and both your posts to help them reach the decision that they could not help!

It certainly does look awkward. Nissan will no doubt massively charge to fix it. If I were to have a go at fixing it I'd dig that whole assembly out and try continuity testing on the motor terminals. If the switching ground was missing I guess a scrap yard may have something...likely the complete assy.

Anyway ...good luck

Colin

[lewisbryant]

The 30A wiper fuse in the IPDM is easier to get to than the wiper motor connector, wouldnt cut a hole in the scuttle panel to get to it as this will allow water to get in there after you've fixed it and nobody wants water dripping on to connectors if they can help it.

If you can get to the wiper motor connector though and check at pin 4 with a multimeter that has min and max setting on it, turn the wiper motor on in any setting and you should find 12v there and then it should drop to 0v when the wiper arms reach the PARK position/"normal at rest" position. Bare in mind this 0V will only be there for the time it is at this position which isnt very long in your situation, this is where the min max feature comes in and you should see it dropping down to 0.somethingV. if it just stays at 12v with no drop then the wiper motor internal park is missing, aslong as the connection in the connector is good then its wiper motor ( seen this a few times and most likely to be the fault in my eyes) ... if there is no 12v there and its constantly at 0v then there is either an open in this wire up to the ipdm or the ipdm is not sending out a 12v signal.

[tomtomtom]

Good afternoon gents! Just to keep you updated after you supplying me with very useful information.

You will not believe what happened with the wipers fault!

Yesterday I found an Auto Electrical centre that was open for urgent faults and they said they had the diagnostic equipment to deal with the problem. The wife drove the car 15 miles to the depot and I drove the MIL's car which we borrowed as they said they may need the car all day as they were short staffed and very busy.

As rain was intermittent we had to stop a few times and turn off the ignition and wait before starting again. A few times it took repeated on/off/lock the car operations to cease the wipers from starting immediately the ignition was turned on again! We finally arrived about 45 minutes later and unbelievably at the entrance to the depot the wipers started to function normally with all operations possible!!! I was really mad but sort of glad as well. Nevertheless I asked the auto electrician to have a look whilst we went shopping and for a walk, hoping they would find the now non-existent fault and replace the part.

Came back to them 2 hours later and nothing found, all electronics/electrics BCM etc checked out A OK! Unbelievable! The only theory he had was that due to the dry weather and lack of use of the wipers, the grease in the wiper motor had coagulated and stopped the motor going to the park position and sending the signal to the BCM to stop. But with the repeated excessive operation of the wipers the grease had re-distributed and allowed the motor the full range of operation and hence things returning to normal. I have kept an open ticket with them in case it all goes awry again, but fingers crossed, or it will probably be a new motor!

Many thanks again for your suggestions and warnings! Peter.