e Handbrake failed - Nissan denys fault

Forum for wheels, tyres, suspension, chassis, brakes
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HerbieDoo
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 7:44 pm

Post by HerbieDoo »

Thanks for letting us know, that's very interesting. I wonder what prompted that. Stay safe!!

HerbieDoo
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 7:44 pm

Post by HerbieDoo »

[quote="Goanshi"]
OK. Need some advice. Would really appreciate any guidance as to next steps.Have
the 2014 Qashqai Acenta Premium 1.5dci, delivered Feb/2014 so its on a
63 plate, but is the new generation. Its got about 15k on the clock. Its
on a lease from Arval leasing.In all the time that I have used
the car, the handbrake applied automatically when you switched the car
off. The handbrake would then dis-engage when you start car+engage
gear+release clutch. Never had a problem. Thought it was a great system.In
Nov, I left the car in the car park as normal. Nothing irregular about
the car park, no steep incline or anything, just a normal Saturday
morning Kingston town center morning. Upon my return several hours
later, I found the car had rolled out of its space across an access way
and into another car.The police had been called and the other
owner was waiting for me pretty angry. The Qashqai handbrake had failed
at some point. Either it had not engaged or it had released some point
in the day. There was no real incline, but if you looked hard enough to
could see an incline that was for the drainage. But was seriously mild.
Unfortunately as the car park spaces around the Qashqai were empty, I
guess it had been able to roll anyway.Went to Nissan wanting to
get the brake fixed and get the crash damage fixed. Nissan took the car
in and, having upgraded the software, said they couldn't find a fault.
They first claimed that I must have left it dis-engaged. But actually
that is really impossible to do accidentally. So all they could imply is
that I must have done it on purpose, but anyway, they didn't accept the
handbrake failed. Fact is it did fail, this really make me angry that
they don't accept that it can.I then went to my leasing company,
Arval, and asked them to pursue a warranty claim for the damage to the
car. They approached Nissan and Nissan then changed the story and told
them that I should have left the car in gear when I parked and because I
had not done so, they didn't feel responsible. So now the leasing
company has washed there hands of this and want me to get the car
repaired.What recourse do I have? Appreciate any advice. Fact is, the electric handbrake failed
on the car. It may well have failed previously, but may not have had
the opportunity to roll. Nissan are basically blaming me to get out of
repairing the damage. The damage isn't serious enough to go full legal,
but the way they have treated this case should be warning to others
thinking of this car. Especially if you have the electric handbrake.For
the record, I think the car is great otherwise. Great looks and drive
for what it is. The entertainment system has an 80's style interface
which in 2014 does let the car down.[/QUOTE]
HerbieDoo
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 7:44 pm

Post by HerbieDoo »

Hi, This is all new to us, never used a forum before. Thought you'd be interested to learn:We have had the exact same thing happen to us. Please see our post from last week. We hear also that garages are rechecking the Electronic handbrake.
omegadeep
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun May 10, 2015 12:27 am

Post by omegadeep »

Well regardless of if Nissan say it should be in gear, which I don't think is in the handbook, if the brake automatically applies when the engine comes to a stop and there is no way to disengage the brake unless you started the engine then I'd say keep fighting with the lease company and Nissan and let them know it has happened to others, as you now know and imply Nissan know of a potential problem in writing to your lease company..... The words , I believe are very good in a letter.. Personally, I'd set one party against the other in fighting this out while you take a back seat, because what happened does require considerable explanation. If the brake can only be disengaged when the motor is running how did it disengage, turn the engine off , not reengage and lock the doors - I assume the doors were locked when you returned? In the Renault Scenic there is a cord in the boot you can pull to disengage the handbrake manually for towing, but I've not read of anything like this for the QQ as yet in my handbook, but it has to be reset by the garage.
omegadeep2015-05-26 19:26:22
A car is just a set of four wheels and four seats to enable one to travel from a to b. all other perceptions are individual illusions of the thought process.
Stevethegreatgolfer
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:16 pm

Post by Stevethegreatgolfer »

With the CVT you have to put the car in Park so if the brake fails nothing could happen. I always put a manual car in gear when I park. Even on flat ground.
Storm White Tekna CVT - Collected on 23 August 2014.
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Gel
Posts: 3265
Joined: Thu May 22, 2014 12:02 pm
Location: Thames Valley UK
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai - J11 (2013–2017)

Post by Gel »

I always leave in gear on my manual. Have never noticed E-brake red light off, but will keep a very close eye on in future.
2014-19 J11A-14 1.5dci Ink Blue Tekna owner; now departed for a Mazda CX-5 GT Sport Nav, 2.0L Petrol :D
qashqaimenace
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:26 am

Post by qashqaimenace »

I Have recently had the same problem!

We bought an ex demo Qashqai on a 64 plate with less than 10k miles on it. We have put another 11k miles on it and enjoyed every minute of it with no problems at all, its a great Car. However over the weekend we parked it on our drive same as always, and applied the electronic handbrake as usual. Got out of the car and went indoors.
Now when I got up the following morning and looked outside, the car was lodged up against the house.
I went outside to see what had happened and it looks like it has rolled back slowly as the damage was fairly minimal (bent tailgate) which doesn't correlate with the incline of the drive and the distance it traveled.
I know for a fact that the handbrake was on when I parked it up as it made the same noise as usual and it was stationary when i got out. The drive is inclined therefore it would roll off immediately if it hadn't been applied correctly.
I have alerted Nissan and the dealer of this and so far no one has had the decency to get back to me (3 days Later) and the car is on the drive with 4 wooden blocks under the wheels to make sure it wont happen again. So i'm left hanging,

Unbeknownst to Nissan and the dealer i'm a charted Mechanical engineer and I design vehicles for a living :) I have already compiled a detailed account of events, including photos and independent witnesses statements who saw what happened and awaiting an independent report to be completed. Secondly I have Already reported this to the DVSA and the dealers conduct to the trading standards. Given the potentially serious consequences of such a failure re occurring I cant let this be. Imagine it rolled off again and crushed a child...doesn't bare thinking about! Now I urge anyone on here that has had a similar problem or knows of anyone who has experienced a similar thing to report it online to DVSA, this can be done online, and its easy to do. The more people that make a complaint the better our chances are that Nissan will be compelled to take action.

And for anyone who is wondering why this has happened its simple.

The 'handbrake' applies pressure onto the rear brakes via mechanical means to hold the car in position when 'parked'. When you have been driving the car for a period of time and used the brakes, the disks on the rear will have warmed up through friction created between them and the brake pads causing the metal to expand. When you apply the 'e brake' it engages an electrical actuator, which is effectively a screw driven by an electrical motor which tightens up the brake pads against the disks. The Cars inbuilt software will sense the pressure applied by measuring the electrical resistance built up in the actuating motor while applying the pressure, so more pressure=more resistance. when a predefined value is reached the power is cut to the motor. (it has 2 preset values 1 for normal operation and 1 for when you lift the brake switch twice as illustrated in the manual to apply maximum brake pressure) When the metal disk cools down and shrinks the friction coefficient between the brake pad material and disk reduces, therefore its not as effective as when it was hot creating a situation where it can roll away in certain circumstances.

So don't get fobbed off by them! it's a defective design on the vehicle. The pressure applied is too low to compensate for this happening, and if they changed the parameters in the software it would burn out the electric actuators due to the added load. = Thousands of indisputable warranty claims! They have made a mistake and are not about to put their hands up to it.....
qashqaimenace
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:26 am

Post by qashqaimenace »

Goanshi wrote:Thanks Dave,Nissan says that I should be leaving the car in gear for a peace of mind. But this is a legal cop out. Peace of mind is that its an auto handbrake system. If Nissan wants you to leave a the car in gear as well, then that kinds of defeats the purpose of selling it as an auto handbrake system. If leaving the car in gear is critical then why not have safety lock out to prevent this not being the case. If its not critical then wtf?Anyway one of the purposes of this post is to let others know, to share a record of what happened to me. If somebody else experiences this, then the Nissan's narrative that it's the driver fault will hopefully be challenged more effectively next time.This really happened on a brand new Qashqai. Not sure how Nissan could have the face to blame any driver for this.
Report it to the DVSA https://forms.vosa.gov.uk/Vsdr/create I have had the same problem as you and they deny any possibility of it being their fault. I have a feeling there will be many more stories like this eventually. The more people that officially report this problem the better. :)
DaveBerlin
Posts: 8623
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–2021)

Post by DaveBerlin »

qashqaimenace, many thanks for the attached Engineers comment on how this System works as I have been trying to find this out for some time. Our QQ is an Aug 14 Tekna and as I have stated before living out here they are taught to "Always" on Manuals to stick the car in Gear and my Ears begin to hurt due to my German wife. It is not that I do not trust the System but when Problems come to light you do tend to react differently. So thanks all for this Post - Dave ;)

"The 'handbrake' applies pressure onto the rear brakes via mechanical means to hold the car in position when 'parked'. When you have been driving the car for a period of time and used the brakes, the disks on the rear will have warmed up through friction created between them and the brake pads causing the metal to expand. When you apply the 'e brake' it engages an electrical actuator, which is effectively a screw driven by an electrical motor which tightens up the brake pads against the disks. The Cars inbuilt software will sense the pressure applied by measuring the electrical resistance built up in the actuating motor while applying the pressure, so more pressure=more resistance. when a predefined value is reached the power is cut to the motor. (it has 2 preset values 1 for normal operation and 1 for when you lift the brake switch twice as illustrated in the manual to apply maximum brake pressure) When the metal disk cools down and shrinks the friction coefficient between the brake pad material and disk reduces, therefore its not as effective as when it was hot creating a situation where it can roll away in certain circumstances".
11.19/1.3L/160PS/Tekna+/DCT/PrOPILOT/KAD Gun Metallic/Trunk Lower Finisher/Rear Glass Finisher/Ambient Lighting-LED’s Innen/Entry Guards Illuminated/Sport Pedals/Front Styling Plate/LED No.Plate/Chrome Door Handles/Rear Valance/Giacuzzo Alloys + Falken
qashqaimenace
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:26 am

Post by qashqaimenace »

Just been speaking to Nissan U.K

They said to take it into the dealer for them to look at it and if there is a problem with it, they will repair it. He then proceeded to say that the damage to the vehicle will be my issue to raise with my insurance company and I quote 'This is the stance Nissan will take on this' Even if they find a fault they are not prepared to repair the damage caused to the vehicle!
Knowing that this fault will not manifest itself during the investigations at the dealer, we will no doubt be in the position where they accept no blame and most likely 'suggest' its something we have done even though its a 'fail' safe automatic system.... Stalemate!

The only way to resolve this is to raise awareness and hopefully anyone who has a problem with their car reports it...Not only To Nissan, but to the DVSA and any other regulatory body in their country. I'm appalled that they cannot accept that there may be a problem, and failing to take it seriously. Once this has been well documented they will be stuffed. And will have no option other than to admit liability as the evidence against them will be compelling.....cue the legal claims! :oops:
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