Emergency braking system fault

ICE, Equipment, Options
User avatar
PJB729
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:18 am
Location: The Midlands

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by PJB729 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:03 am

calnorth wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:01 am
I think a prescribed area is "viewed" and conditioned in terms of doppler shift and object proximity. Whats moving in relation to the car and whats near enough to physically contact...all within prescribed parameters. The car with sensors is moving also. Parameters are fixed/acquired within the software (constants) which establish baselines to calculate difference. Differences give rise to actions such as alarm/avoidance tactics.

I'm trying to imagine the field of view response as a running series of digital snapshots that are compared on the fly. Quality decisions are made and filtering them as regards relevance must be somewhat tricky? I've just talked myself out of having that stuff.
The decisions made must also deal with the unknown\indecipherable after which the default "safe" mode must be to put the bakes on. There may conditions where the "safe" mode might put the driver at risk, us humans would not expect a car to suddenly apply the brakes when the road ahead is, to us, clear.
QQ 1.5dci Tekna 2016 Magnetic Red
QQ 1.5dci Tekna + 2019 Magnetic Red


User avatar
calnorth
Posts: 927
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:01 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by calnorth » Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:55 am

Thoughts:
An earlier debate moved to a place where Boeing and Airbus aircraft had significant control differences. Its where events lead to areas that only humans can reliably act or are able to act out of safe place. The aircraft has to be operated out of its safe operating parameters or performance zone. Software control we know will/can prevent that extreme and sudden requirement. Airbus was caught up here with its fly by wire features. Boeing didn't do that. Not sure what they do now...the 777 Max has caused quite some alarm.

Anyway, human pilot experience became the sales argument and I suppose this "experience" thing is whats meant by incorporating AI for vehicle control.

Where the cars critical functions are under auto control (brakes/steering/engine) the system may not release its control having voted to "go for it". Emergency action has to be taken but realisation speed and decoupling method will likely take too long...bang! Aircraft usually have a good bit of "headroom" here.

I understand the trade offs generally and that the nut at the end of the wheel needs defeating...not all of them though?
Thankfully unbusy (retired)
Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta


User avatar
PJB729
Posts: 312
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:18 am
Location: The Midlands

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by PJB729 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:12 am

With regards to the 777 max I do wonder if the designer thought of everything except the human interaction element. Us humans have a history of being unpredictable yes they do write algorithms that predict human behaviour and they are good MOST of the time. If I’m on a 777 max most of the time isn’t good enough, on the flip side even pilots can decide to fly into hillsides or commit suicide taking their passengers with them.
QQ 1.5dci Tekna 2016 Magnetic Red
QQ 1.5dci Tekna + 2019 Magnetic Red


User avatar
calnorth
Posts: 927
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:01 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by calnorth » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:46 am

PJB729 wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:12 am
With regards to the 777 max I do wonder if the designer thought of everything except the human interaction element. Us humans have a history of being unpredictable yes they do write algorithms that predict human behaviour and they are good MOST of the time. If I’m on a 777 max most of the time isn’t good enough, on the flip side even pilots can decide to fly into hillsides or commit suicide taking their passengers with them.
Yep...there's quite a few crew errors on the Aircraft Accident vids. The human is factored in hence the Boeing/Airbus comparison where Airbus fairly left the human out. Its often a series of errors because single points are the prime targets of safety.

Mostly confusion from instruments and bad pilots. I'm very surprised at Boeing though and the FAA. With the Fake/crap news about I can't make head nor tail of it. It heads off to a deliberate attack on Boeing?
Thankfully unbusy (retired)
Mk2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)
1.6 Dig-T N-Connecta


Qashpad
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by Qashpad » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:25 pm

Had this blocked radar message flash up erratically over the past few weeks. Phoned Ames in Norfolk re the fault under warranty, who came to my home, picked up the car, took it to their garage and returned the car to me fixed and valeted And washed.
It turns out some paper had blown up under the radiator area and was blocking the sensor every so often.
They did all this for no charge even though there was no fault with the car. Thought it was nice to give a good main dealer a plug for a change even though they are not my regular garage.
Wish we knew where this sensor is at it could solve others problems.
2019 Tekna+ , white 160 hp 1.3 litre with DCT auto box


Pandjh
Posts: 404
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:34 am
Location: South-East England
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by Pandjh » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:26 am

Nice to hear Qashpad, the radar stuff is all behind the Nissan badge on the grill as i understand it.
2019 1.3 DiG-T 160 Tekna, black (J11b)
prev 2015 1.2 DiG-T n-tec+, black (J11)
prev 2009 1.5 dCi Acenta, black (J10)


Qashpad
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by Qashpad » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:50 am

Pandjh thanks for that information. I have looked through the gaps in the engine compartment and can see wires going to the back of the Nissan badge as you say. Also there is still evidence of some masking tape on it so think this was left on during manufacturing. Cheers
2019 Tekna+ , white 160 hp 1.3 litre with DCT auto box


DaveBerlin
Posts: 6620
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by DaveBerlin » Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:52 pm

Could this Nissan USA Problem all be related - Dave ☹️
In a statement Nissan acknowledged some Rogue drivers may experience "false activation," saying: "Nissan is committed to the safety and security of our customers and their passengers. Nissan has investigated the issue of false activation on its Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) system extensively and, in consultation with NHTSA, launched field actions notifying affected customers of a software update that improves MY17-18 Rogue AEB/FEB system performance. On some affected vehicles, vehicle owners may experience false-positive activation by the AEB system in unique road conditions, such as specific railroad crossings, bridges, and low hanging traffic lights. The update to the FEB/AEB system software is designed to improve system functionality. Customers are invited to bring their vehicle to an authorized Nissan dealership where the update will be applied at no cost."

Automatic emergency braking in cars will be standard by 2022, but false activations still a concern - CBS News : https://www.cbsnews.com/news/automatic-emergency-braking-in-cars-will-be-standard-by-2022-but-false-activations-still-a-concern/

Have you read this : https://www.qashqaiforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9006
11.19/1.3L/160PS/Tekna+/DCT/PrOPILOT/KAD Gun Metallic/Trunk Lower Finisher/Rear Glass Finisher/Ambient Lighting-LED’s Innen/Entry Guards Illuminated/Sport Pedals/Front Styling Plate/LED No.Plate/Chrome Door Handles/Rear Valance/Giacuzzo Alloys + Falken


geoff47
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:53 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by geoff47 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:30 pm

My 67 plate 1.2 auto went in to main dealer for service on Wednesday 22nd November and they said that there was a recall for a software update for the AEB system but they were not doing it because the update had problems. They will call it back when software is sorted out by Nissan. In the meantime - I guess I could turn it off on every journey ( not practical) or hope it doesn't decide to slam the brakes on.


DaveBerlin
Posts: 6620
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:39 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany
Qashqai Model: Mk.2 Qashqai Facelift - J11b (2017–present)

Re: Emergency braking system fault

Post by DaveBerlin » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:36 pm

Geoff, asked our Dealer here today and yes there is talk of Software Updates out here also - Dave 🤨
11.19/1.3L/160PS/Tekna+/DCT/PrOPILOT/KAD Gun Metallic/Trunk Lower Finisher/Rear Glass Finisher/Ambient Lighting-LED’s Innen/Entry Guards Illuminated/Sport Pedals/Front Styling Plate/LED No.Plate/Chrome Door Handles/Rear Valance/Giacuzzo Alloys + Falken


Post Reply

Return to “Electronic systems”