Qashqai rear windscreen heating element & cared 4 warranty

Bodywork & Interior problems
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uklarka
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:09 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by uklarka »

Hi folks
I'm a first time poster
We recently bought a qashqai + 2 (2011) from Westways under cared 4 scheme & have had problems with it from day one (I may put up a more detailed post later with details). The main query I have is re the heating element on the rear windscreen. It did not work from day one & has eventually been repaired with some solder. Is this acceptible or should have replaced the whole windscreen? Hopefully the photos will make some sense.
Thanks for your advice
Mo

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Deleted User 3871

Post by Deleted User 3871 »

Replacing the rear windscreen would be wasteful and could lead to water ingress later on. It is common to repair the element with conductive paint, its quick and easy. Soldering sounds a bit gash but effective, just unsightly. I would ask for it to be done correctly.
uklarka wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:17 pm Hi folks
I'm a first time poster
We recently bought a qashqai + 2 (2011) from Westways under cared 4 scheme & have had problems with it from day one (I may put up a more detailed post later with details). The main query I have is re the heating element on the rear windscreen. It did not work from day one & has eventually been repaired with some solder. Is this acceptible or should have replaced the whole windscreen? Hopefully the photos will make some sense.
Thanks for your advice
Mo
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PJB729
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Post by PJB729 »

That looks more like a bad repair job with the conductive paint, perhaps a little masking tape might have produced a neater repair, I would take it back and ask them to have another go.
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uklarka
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:09 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by uklarka »

Hi folks
Thanks for the replies
Just an update
They have agreed to replace the rear windscreen. Furthermore I have just discovered that not only was the repair shoddy but they didn't actually fix it (see pics). We are still waiting to hear from them.

Also, just wondering if anyone has experience of cared 4 Nissan. I have read that if they can't repair the car within 30 days / 1000 miles you can exchange (the have refused to give me a refund so I have got the TMO involved).

Regards

Mo

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PJB729
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Post by PJB729 »

EXCHANGE PROMISE
30 day/1,000 mile exchange promise.
Nissan engineers will have made every effort to ensure your vehicle looks, feels and drives as good as new. In fact, we’re so confident, we’ll offer you a 30 day/1,000 mile exchange promise. This means in the unlikely event that the vehicle develops a fault, which cannot be resolved within the mileage and timeframe, we’ll exchange it for another vehicle of at least equal value.

It only states that they will exchange the vehicle, it doesn't offer you your money back, perhaps the picture of such a dreadful repair might have an embarrassment factor

EXPERT CARE WITH YOU+NISSAN. OUR PROMISE. YOUR EXPERIENCE
There’s no time limit on how long you will benefit from our promises. If you are a Nissan Customer we will look after you. That is our promise.
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uklarka
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:09 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by uklarka »

hi folks, just wanted to update you re the rear windscreen issue. We finally got the qashqai back with a new rear windscreen on 6.3.18 (they took it the day before). Given how unhappy were with the above and other issues we go in touch the motor ombudsman and submitted an request for refund and / or exchange. i have attached our original dispute form and below is the dealership and ombudsman response. Just wondering what everyones advice is as to what we should do next..

---------

Consumer's contentions

As supplied to TMO (available on request)

Business’ response

With reference to the Above Mr XXXX registration number XXXXX I have enclosed the rectifications that have been carried out by ourselves after him taking delivery of the above vehicle.

1) Engine Management light on dash – vehicle left our dealership with no engine light on the fault developed apparently the next day , we received a call from Mr Ahmed reference this and we arranged to collect the vehicle from his home address and supplied him with a courtesy car so he wasn’t inconvenienced by having to return to us. Once vehicle arrived at our dealership we carried out full diagnostics checks which revealed the exhaust actuator had failed which is a wear and tear item and could have failed at any time we ordered parts and replaced tested and vehicle was all ok.

As to points 2,3,4 and 5 these where brought up to our attention by Mr XXXX whilst vehicle was with us, to which we used a repair kit for the Heated Rear Window as 2 lines had failed, the key fob was a battery, headlight beam was ok and no fault was found as vehicle passed an mot test, the internal light was a bulb again could have gone at any time which was replaced the vehicle was then delivered back to Mr XXXX after several road test and checks to ensure the engine management light did not come on again and then delivered back to himself without any inconvenience caused to himself.

The following day he contacted us to say that he was unhappy with the repair to the Heated Rear Window so we agreed to order a new rear screen and collected vehicle again and supplied a courtesy vehicle again for his use, which we collected from his home again to not Inconvenience him travelling to our dealership.

In summary we feel that there is no justification in his request for a full refund as faults were minor issues that could have happened at any time after a Cared 4 inspection had been carried out, however after taking delivery of the vehicle our aftersales department has rectified all points noted 100% to a satisfactory standard.

Adjudication outcome

After reviewing the information which has been made available to me I cannot see that there has been a breach of our codes and therefore I am not upholding this complaint.

When you purchase a vehicle it must be fit for purpose, of satisfactory quality and as described, as per your consumer rights and in turn our Vehicle Sales Code of Practice. If at the point of sale it would not have met these criteria then you may be entitled to a remedy, this could be repair, replacement or rejection of the vehicle depending on the issues which you have experience and the time frames involved. If there is a fault within the first 6 months then it would be presumed that the fault was present at the point of sale, outside of this then the consumer must prove that the faults were present when they purchased the vehicle.

After reviewing your complaint I can see that you discovered issues with your vehicle the day after purchase which were then reported to the dealership 2 days after you had collected the vehicle. This clearly falls within the first 30 days of purchase and there is no dispute from the dealership that repair work was carried out to rectify minor issues such as the key fob, headlight, lightbulb etc. I also understand that the rear windscreen has now been replaced and that repair works were also carried out to resolve the engine management light on the dash which was the result of a failed exhaust actuator. Generally speaking the dealership would only get one chance to repairs or replace the vehicle before you would move onto rejection being a possible remedy under your consumer rights. However as all of the issues have now been resolved, as I understand it, you wouldn’t then be entitled to reject the vehicle as well as essentially the repair work which has been carried out is a remedy, to then reject it would be to seek two remedies for the same issues.

Regarding the Nissan Exchange promise the terms and conditions are clear in saying that if there is a fault within the first 30 days/1000 miles they will exchange the vehicle in the event that the fault cannot be rectified within the same specified time frame/mileage. As your vehicle has had all of the faults repaired I couldn’t agree that you would at this stage be entitled to a replacement vehicle under the exchange promise.


Next steps

For the reasons above, I am unable to uphold your complaint. It is my opinion that this outcome is fair and reasonable based on the evidence provided by both parties so far.

If you would like to submit some new information, I will happily consider this to see if it changes my mind – please let me know within the next 10 working days if you will you be looking to provide any further information. If you need more time, for example you are looking to get an independent report, I will consider an extension to allow you to provide this. If the new information changes my mind, I will propose a resolution but, if it doesn't, this will remain as my position. Both parties will then have a further 5 working days to decide whether to request a final decision from the Ombudsman, if they disagree with the outcome at that point.[*]Image
TMO-Consumer-Enquiry-Form-2018.doc
tmo enquiry
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uklarka
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:09 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by uklarka »

PS in case the above doesn't make sense, I updated TMO on 16th of March as follows...

Dear Charles

Thank you for the email and advice when we spoke on the phone last week. This is an email to update the case file.

We got the Qashqai + 2 back on the 5th after it being told that the exhaust throttle actuator fault and rear windscreen heating element had been "repaired and checked". I immediately noted the poor cosmetic appearance of the heating element repair which we were not happy with. I immediately contacted them via telephone and email within a few days to tell them this. (I have forwarded a copy of the email and photographs with a separate email). Within a few days we also realized that they hadn't actually repaired the heating element because when it was cold / frosted the same 2 bars again were not working / faulty. We were eventually told that they would order a new rear windscreen and notify us when it came it. The car has not broken down again and appears to drive fine apart from a possible slow tyre leak from the front driver side tyre.

I eventually managed to speak with Gary (deputy manager) on 14.2.18 (the replacement windscreen had not yet arrived). I again asked for a refund the consumer rights act (2015) and again I was told that this did not qualify. Furthermore, now that it had been more than 30 days since we had purchased the car and the fault had not been repaired. I inquired if we could exchange the car for another car under the 30 day / 1000 mile cared 4 Nissan exchange promise. Gary told me he would speak to his manager and get back to me in 1-2 hours which of course did not happen.

http://www.nissanusedcars.co.uk/en.GB/n ... ared_4.htm

"30 day/1,000 mile exchange promise.
Nissan engineers will have made every effort to ensure your vehicle looks, feels and drives as good as new. In fact, we’re so confident, we’ll offer you a 30 day/1,000 mile exchange promise. This means in the unlikely event that the vehicle develops a fault, which cannot be resolved within the mileage and timeframe, we’ll exchange it for another vehicle of at least equal value."

I finally managed to speak with the general manager Peter on 20.2.18 telling him how unhappy we were with the car, their service and that we had lost confidence with both the car and dealership. Again, Peter did not think that the car qualified for a refund or exchange despite quoting the above, which appears to suggest quite clearly that we can should be at least entitled to an exchange. During the conversation cited the example of another customer / car which they have to bring back at least 4 times to repair a faulty heater as if that was a good thing! Peter has agreed to look into an exchange but has not yet got back to me with anything. To try and reach an amicable resolution I even offered to pay extra towards another newer vehicle if they took this car back; Peter was not agreeable.

The Qashqai has been provisionally booked in to be collected on 5.3.18 to have the replacement rear wind screen fitted. Given the subzero arctic weather conditions at present, not having a fully functioning rear windscreen does impair your vision slightly whilst driving.

I look forward to your input in trying to resolve this matter.

Kind regards
uklarka
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:09 pm
Qashqai Model: Mk.1 Qashqai Facelift - J10b (2010–2013)

Post by uklarka »

My draft response...

dear K

Thank you for the email and update. We are very disappointed that you do not feel that you can uphold our complaint. Firstly, I wanted to check you have received all my emails to date on this complaint including the update email I sent on 16th of March as neither the business nor yourself seem to refer to any of these things?

Secondly, I do not feel that the business have accurately reflected what actually occurred. I have highlighted certain statements they have made in their response above and would like to our version of what actually happened

1) Engine Management light on dash – vehicle left our dealership with no engine light on the fault developed apparently the next day, we received a call from Mr Ahmed reference this and we arranged to collect the vehicle from his home address and supplied him with a courtesy car so he wasn’t inconvenienced by having to return to us.

This is not correct. The engine management light came on 10th of January and I informed them that day and was told they would get back to me. However, the rear heated windscreen element not working (2) and other minor faults (3,4 and 5) was noted by me on the same day of purchase (9th of January 2018) during my drive from Rochdale to Sheffield i.e. faulty at the point of sale.

I made numerous calls to the dealership and can provide phone records to prove this if needed to chase up the how / when they planned to fix these. I fobbed off several times and was told that I would have to bring the car to Rochdale given I lived too far for one their drivers to collect this. When I refused to this Darren or Gary (salesmen) said that he would speak to the manager I get back to me, which of course they didn’t. Only when the car did not start (a new fault - 1) on 23.1.18 (i.e. 13 days later) did they then arrange to pick up my car and give us a courtesy car! We were certainly inconvenienced for 13 days having to keep chasing up the dealership to try and take the car back for repair.

2) The following day he contacted us to say that he was unhappy with the repair to the Heated Rear Window so we agreed to order a new rear screen and collected vehicle again and supplied a courtesy vehicle again for his use, which we collected from his home again to not Inconvenience him travelling to our dealership.
We got the car back on 5.2.18. It is correct that were unhappy with the appearance of the frankly shoddy “repair.” I am not sure what kind of “repair” or checks they had carried out because the fact is that they the rear windscreen heating element fault was still present when the car was returned to us; which is immediately apparent once it heating element was needed / turned on (there were again 2 lines which did not demist).
Regarding inconvenience, both times for courtesy cars we were given Nissan Jukes (5 seats only) which is significantly smaller than a Qashqai + 2 (7 seats). This was an inconvenience especially when we had to change travel plans one occasion due the having a smaller car.

You have mention in your adjudication that “Generally speaking the dealership would only get one chance to repairs or replace the vehicle before you would move onto rejection being a possible remedy under your consumer rights.” I was wondering why in our case you feel that we are not entitled to a rejection after the dealership did not repair one of the major faults at the first chance?

Also regarding the cared4 30 day exchange promise:
1. The initial fault was noted on the day of collection (9th of Jan 2018) and the car was finally repaired given back to us on 6.3.18. This is ~56 days until the fault was rectified. So, why do you feel that we are not entitled to an replacement vehicle given it took > 30 days to rectify the problem?
2. I spoke with Gary (deputy manager) on 14.2.18 re. the 30 day exchange promise and he reluctantly said he would look into and get back to me (which he did not)
3. When I spoke with Peter (manager) on 20.2.18 about the 30-day exchange promise I clearly recall him saying something along the lines of “I have half dozen Qashqais on the forecourt which I could swap if needed.” I told him that he did not have any 4WD Qashqai + 2 models, which is rare model, hence us travelling to Rochdale to purchase it. I could not get Peter to agree to the 30-day exchange. He said he would look into and get back to me, which of course he did not.

I would be grateful if you could clarify the above points. I would also like to request an extension so that I can provide any independent report of the car and case.
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