1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Forum for Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU
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calnorth
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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by calnorth » Sun May 31, 2020 8:23 am

A thought:
"The financial ombudsman are investigating and have informed me that I need to prove the vehicle was faulty when I purchased it".

I thought that with the UK Consumer Law it was not the requirement for the complainant to prove fault existence at purchase time. Its up to the seller to prove it wasn't faulty at that point? This could bounce it right back to the manufacturer...who has history/records.

Need to plough through Consumer Law stuff and I know that cars get some exemptions here and there.
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Smarshall123
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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by Smarshall123 » Sun May 31, 2020 8:49 am

Your right it is down to the seller to prove it wasn't faulty. This is only in the first 6 months since purchase. So as the engine failed just over 12 months after purchase it is down to me to prove it was faulty.
Even though it was showing signs of this fault just 4 months after purchase, as the EML came on and had to take it into Nissan. They said it just needed an oil top up. Which I now know is part if this common fault.
Last edited by Smarshall123 on Sun May 31, 2020 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by Smarshall123 » Sun May 31, 2020 8:52 am

DaveBerlin wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 4:21 pm
Have you actually seen the Oil Samples & the “Swarf” in it., are they talking about large particles or small that you have to look at with an Eyeglass or Microscope. How the Hell are you going to prove this is the cause, really they have IMHO passed the Buck back into your Court. It would appear you will need Technical Assistance now of some sort to fight this.
I might be from the old school but our oil and filter are always changed at the first 1000 Kms for the reason of Swarf. But your problem appears to be the known problem of faulty parts. Where do you go now ? - Dave 🤨
No I haven't seen the oil samples. I am having to go to numerous mechanics and ask for their opinion. So far everyone has confirmed the oil contamination in swarf would originate from the excessive oil consumption.

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calnorth
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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by calnorth » Sun May 31, 2020 9:22 am

Smarshall123 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 8:49 am
Your right it is down to the seller to prove it wasn't faulty. This is only in the first 6 months since purchase. So as the engine failed just over 12 months after purchase it is down to me to prove it was faulty.
Even though it was showing signs of this fault just 4 months after purchase, as the EML came on and had to take it into Nissan. They said it just needed an oil top up. Which I now know is part if this common fault.
For the 4 month visit...do you have Nissan documentation for that visit? Did they top it up?

It is highly irregular that an engine goes to low oil in 4 months flagging EML. Its leaking or burning the oil...perhaps both weirdly. Its highly indicative of an inherent fault or you partially emptied the sump?........... :oops:

Hope I'm nor running out covered stuff here...this post is long.
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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by Smarshall123 » Sun May 31, 2020 11:32 am

calnorth wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 9:22 am
Smarshall123 wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 8:49 am
Your right it is down to the seller to prove it wasn't faulty. This is only in the first 6 months since purchase. So as the engine failed just over 12 months after purchase it is down to me to prove it was faulty.
Even though it was showing signs of this fault just 4 months after purchase, as the EML came on and had to take it into Nissan. They said it just needed an oil top up. Which I now know is part if this common fault.
For the 4 month visit...do you have Nissan documentation for that visit? Did they top it up?

It is highly irregular that an engine goes to low oil in 4 months flagging EML. Its leaking or burning the oil...perhaps both weirdly. Its highly indicative of an inherent fault or you partially emptied the sump?........... :oops:

Hope I'm nor running out covered stuff here...this post is long.
Yeah I've got an invoice from when it went to Nissan for the oil top. They have said that it isn't proof of the fault either. No I didn't empty the sump. No you're not covering old posts. There have been many people posting their faults on here too, my first post was on page 73. Its shocking how many people have gone through the same issue.

Annoying if Nissan had mentioned the oil consumption problem back in April, the engine failure coule have been prevented.

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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by calnorth » Sun May 31, 2020 1:27 pm

You mention the following:
"I too have a 65 plate Nissan Qashqai 1.2 which has suffered from engine failure. My VIN also falls within the TB"

I'm a bit bothered here by the cop out by two major actors...Nissan (Tech Bulletin) and your Dealer. They are very aware of this problem....

What mileage is the engine at approx.....is it the original engine?

Below is the diagram of the Oil system of a Nissan MR20DD petrol engine. Needs forensics to determine swarf origin I suspect? I note a Balancer to loop back to the Sump. And then an oil pressure sensor. It used to be said that by the time the pressure sensor had triggered damage had been done.

Screenshot from 2020-05-31 14-13-16.png

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Smarshall123
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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by Smarshall123 » Sun May 31, 2020 1:45 pm

The mileage is approx 39,000 and it has full service history. Yes it is the original engine.
Yes the Nissan garage have said the engine would only be stripped down at Nissan HQ after the engine has been replaced. So I dont know how it is possible to even determine the swarf origin. I just think that there is enough evidence to say that it has originated from the oil consumption fault. Unless there are any other possibilities?
As the TB says oil is drawn into the cylinder, would there be another reason excess oil has entered the cylinder, they also said the conrod is bent and has been pushing against oil instead of air.

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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by calnorth » Sun May 31, 2020 7:34 pm

Thats a low miler. The strip inspection (if done) would reveal scoring etc on any metal to metal surfaces. Unacceptable friction and/or impact damage. To the extent that metal pieces could have been forced around the engine and particularly its oil ways.

The test document you provided earlier and Cylinder No 4...is that 125 or what? The others are at or above 145 psi it appears. Can't read most of it.

What was the reasoning given for the bent conrod....is that Cyl No 4 or what?

Is/was this engine blue-ish smoking.

Do you have earlier MOT documents. If so, is there any emissions remarks?

Bent conrod(s) are about piston lock....it is a surprise really to see that here.
Last edited by calnorth on Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by Smarshall123 » Sun May 31, 2020 8:16 pm

Yes I was surprised this has happened at such a low mileage.

Yes its 125 on cylinder 4. They haven't said which conrod is bent, they just said they suspect its conrod failure as they haven't stripped the engine.
No when I pulled the vehicle over there was no smoke just a loud banging noise.
Someone else has told me the pressure in all the cylinders is unusually low.

Yeah I have the last MOT document, there are no emission remarks. The emission test was marked as passed. They just mentioned a rattle on the timing chain but didn't say it needed replacing. Also when it was serviced in September the oil filter was changed as well as the oil so I'm surprised nothing was picked up then.

Does piston lock mean the engine wouldn't run at all?

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Re: 1.2 DIG-T - Oil loss

Post by calnorth » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:46 am

The engine can still run after conrod damage but its not a good idea to run it. However, its a guess by a test person...outlier.

This engine lies within the VIN listing of the TB... it appears.
The mileage (use) is quite low for its age.
Lewis in above post gives us good information (software and piston rings). Production quality, erroneous software control.
Debris in oil (swarf). Signature for serious damage shortening component life.
MOT reports timing chain rattle. Premature wear.
Compression test shows No 4 cylinder low. Needs deeper investigation.

I don't know the full history of this 1.2 engine type and issues. However, as we see here and elsewhere its much more than a few isolated incidents. From what Lewis advises its likely premature component wear due to poor production quality and an element of software error. Nissan recognised the problem as verified by their TB (corrective action). I'd expect them to recall and/or specifically investigate at periodic Service(s). Results should show up in the Service Notes for the Customer and Nissan. The Customer should be informed and likely instructed about performing regular oil level checks. In fact out of the normal checks.

The engine usage figure here is significant...the problem realises some 4 years down the line in this case. The vehicle is likely to have changed ownership. At this point the manufacturer appears to have relinquished responsibility for introducing some defective engines onto the market. Ironically the car is sold on through a Nissan agent. This is not a non franchise seller...its a recognised/approved dealer.

If the VIN is in the TB list bracket I can say that its a very open admission of a known serious problem. Proof is the VIN number. Its a question of time before a fault(s) arises which is latency. Variation by owners in engine use will clearly bring the problem to the fore sooner or later for some engines. At the extreme its a very dangerous problem.

I certainly appreciate that a manufacture is wary of certain claims. However, in this case he has a tag/alert on the suspect engine batch. He needs to help here in anyway he can. I'd say you want a repeat Customer order....don't you?


I've suffered a similar latency problem with a Mazda gearbox 2.5 years on from new (1986) at 22k miles. Premature Input shaft bearing wear manifesting as a whine in gears 1, 2, 3 and 5. Asking Mazda, a UK Motor Club and another for assistance took me on a wild circle to nothing much. Always asking for Service documents that had nothing much related on them. I wrote to Mazda Hiroshima for the gearbox assembly/setup document. I got a polite "no help" return.
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